By Gene Galin
Pittsboro, NC – When the 3 Guys from Pittsboro Having Lunch sat down at the former Havoc Brewing space in downtown Pittsboro for a casual conversation a few weeks ago, the talk quickly moved beyond kegs, walls and plumbing. What emerged was a candid picture of a high-profile property at a crossroads: a large, recently shuttered brewery space with valuable infrastructure, a prime location on the traffic circle, and a long list of possible futures — but no final tenant yet. The discussion between Greg Stafford, Eric Andrews, and me revealed both the promise and the complexity of reviving one of the town’s most visible commercial spaces. Greg and Eric described a project that now appears likely headed toward a split-space concept, a lengthy permitting and design process, and a reopening timeline that, at best, points to spring 2027. This will take time, but the next chapter should help restore an important social and economic anchor in downtown Pittsboro.
A High-Profile Vacancy in the Center of Town
For months, the former Havoc space has stood as one of the most closely watched properties in Pittsboro. Its location alone makes it hard to ignore. Positioned near the circle in the heart of downtown, the site is more than just another empty commercial building. It is a place residents came to associate with gathering, music, food, drinks and the broader energy of a growing town center.
That explains why public curiosity has remained high. We got together to discuss the possibilities because many residents want to know what is coming next and when. There is clearly no shortage of ideas. But during our conversation, Greg and Eric made plain that reviving the space is not as simple as unlocking the doors and bringing in a new operator.
At the center of the discussion was the challenge of what Eric Andrews called having “almost too much of a blank canvas.” On paper, the space offers flexibility and scale. In practice, that same openness can make it harder for potential tenants to imagine how they would use it — or how much work it would take to make it fit their needs.
Prospective tenants have come in with lists of desired changes: different bathroom arrangements, different bar layouts, different uses for the production area, and different expectations for kitchens, coolers and outdoor space. That is pushing the Staffords toward a more formal planning phase with engineers and architects before they can market the next version of the property with confidence.
The project, in other words, has moved from broad possibility to detailed problem-solving.
Why the Building May Be Split in Two
One of the significant takeaways from our conversation was that the property’s future may involve dividing the space into two establishments instead of one. That idea appears to have emerged not from theory but from necessity.
As Greg and Eric described it, they have reached the point where they must decide where a wall would go, how utilities would be divided, and what arrangement would make the most sense over the long term. Those decisions are not cosmetic. They go to the core of how the building can function and what types of businesses it can support.
Fortunately, the group said, the space was originally built with some of that flexibility in mind. Sewer lines, electrical service and other basic systems had at one point been laid out for a separated configuration. Even after earlier changes removed those divisions, some of the underlying infrastructure remained stubbed out. That means the building is not starting from zero if the Staffords decide to pursue two tenants.
Still, prior planning only takes a project so far. Greg emphasizes the importance of collaboration with engineers and architects. “We have to meet with an engineer and figure out the schematic of the building,” he explains. The goal is to create a space that not only meets the needs of potential tenants but also enhances the overall downtown experience. You need engineers to help determine what is feasible, what meets code, and what works best from a long-term investment standpoint. Plumbing, restroom placement, kitchen possibilities and customer flow are all part of that puzzle.
Their discussion underscored a reality when people ask why a vacant space has not yet reopened: every wall, bathroom and utility line can affect what businesses are even able to lease a property.
That reality is especially important in a space this large. The former brewery was designed for significant production capacity. Some potential brewery tenants have already said that the manufacturing footprint is bigger than what they need. Others may want to preserve some brewing equipment while converting part of the building to food service. In that sense, splitting the property could widen the range of viable tenants — while also preserving the possibility of different uses side by side.
The Search for the Right Tenant, Not Just Any Tenant
Our conversation also made clear that the Staffords are not simply chasing the first available lease. They are trying to find a tenant — or tenants — that fit both the economics of the building and the broader vision for downtown Pittsboro.
That is where the project becomes more than a real estate matter. It becomes a civic one.
Eric described Pittsboro as a “secondary market,” arguing that downtown’s strength is not likely to come from a wave of national chains but from established operators expanding into a second, third or fourth location. In other words, the ideal tenant is not a first-time entrepreneur learning on the fly, but an experienced business owner who already knows how to run a successful concept elsewhere and can adapt it to Pittsboro.
That approach reflects both optimism and caution. On the one hand, Chatham County’s growth is real, and downtown Pittsboro is increasingly seen as an attractive destination. On the other hand, fitting out a large commercial space properly is expensive, and there is a genuine concern about placing the property in the hands of an undercapitalized or untested operator.
We talked about a series of examples of businesses that have looked at the site: breweries, a breakfast concept, an Italian restaurant, a steakhouse, Asian fusion operators, a doctor’s office focused on wellness services, and even people interested in using the space as a wedding venue. Not every idea was treated equally. Some were dismissed because of market overlap. Pizza, for example, was described as off the table because of the success of the Mod offering pizza nearby. An Irish pub was also treated skeptically in light of Daugherty’s being a few buildings away.
More intriguing was the discussion of an Asian fusion concept and the possibility of sushi. We also mentioned a steakhouse as a desirable possibility, though this appears not to be the leading contender.
The Patio Matters More Than the Lease Rate
If one theme carried emotional weight throughout our discussion, it was clearly the value of the outdoor patio and music area.
Again and again, we reinforced the idea that the next tenant must appreciate and use that space well. Some prospective tenants did not see the patio as important or necessary. As a group, the three of us disagreed.
To Greg and Eric, the patio is not an accessory. It is central to what made the site special and to what downtown Pittsboro needs.
It is clearly a nightly music and entertainment opportunity, a gathering space that helped draw people into town, and a feature that increased foot traffic for surrounding businesses. We touched on packed events, strong turnout during celebrations such as St. Patrick’s festivities, and the way live music on a Friday night could spill energy across the circle and into neighboring establishments.
I believe this description gets at a broader truth about small-town downtowns: one successful venue often does more than fill its own seats. It creates movement. It encourages wandering. It turns an errand stop into an evening out.
Greg and Eric were remarkably direct about this. They said they would rather wait for a tenant who values the outdoor space than lease quickly to one who does not. That is a notable position, particularly when carrying costs continue and an empty building generates no income. But it also suggests that the Staffords see the property as a kind of placemaking asset, not just a revenue stream.
A vibrant downtown depends on more than square footage. It depends on atmosphere, routine, identity and places where people choose to linger.
A Long Road Through Design and Permitting
Anyone hoping the former Havoc space would be back in operation within weeks or even a few months got a reality check from our conversation.
Eric and Greg indicated that even under a best-case scenario, an opening would likely land around early spring 2027. And that would require the stars to align.
The reasons are fairly straightforward. First comes engineering and architectural work. Then comes a concrete plan for how the space will be divided and retrofitted. After that comes permitting. Only then can tenant-specific construction truly move forward.
That sequence matters because even businesses already interested in the site are not in a position to move overnight. In fact, Eric said some brewery operators had effectively laughed off the idea that they could open in a month, noting that permits alone would prevent anything close to that timeline.
There was cautious optimism about cooperation from the town. Eric and Greg believe that local leaders are supportive of downtown and of the space specifically. But that optimism was tempered by memories of earlier, more difficult dealings during past phases of development.
Their discussion of prior hurdles offered a revealing look at how complicated adaptive commercial reuse can become. There were stories about pipe couplings that had to meet “made in America” requirements during supply chain disruptions, leading to delays and extra approvals. There was the surprise discovery of not one but nine underground storage tanks, remnants of old gas station uses on the circle, which required excavation and environmental remediation. There was contaminated soil that had to be trucked out of state for treatment.
Those details matter because they help explain why reuse projects often take longer and cost more than the public expects. On the surface, a vacant building can look ready for its next occupant. Underneath, there may be decades of legacy infrastructure, regulatory requirements and hidden expense.
In Pittsboro’s case, the Havoc site carries all that history while also sitting in one of the town’s most visible redevelopment zones.
The Cost of Building in Today’s Market
Our conversation repeatedly returned to cost, both directly and indirectly. No matter how much enthusiasm there might be for filling an empty space, budgets and construction realities ultimately shape what is possible.
Eric noted that commercial build-out has become dramatically expensive, recalling earlier complaints about square-foot costs that now appear modest by comparison. He explained that commercial construction costs continue to rise to levels that would have sounded extreme only a few years ago.
That matters for prospective tenants because the former Havoc space is not a small plug-and-play storefront. It is a large, specialized environment that may require serious reconfiguration depending on who leases it next. A brewery that wants a kitchen faces one set of expenses. A restaurant that wants to reduce production equipment faces another. Two tenants splitting the building create still another cost structure.
Greg and Eric emphasized the existing assets already in place. A grease trap was highlighted as a major value point, especially because installing one later can be costly and disruptive. Existing utility stubs, restrooms, and other infrastructure similarly add value even if they need adjustment.
In commercial real estate, these background features can determine whether a concept pencils out. A grease trap, sewer access, electrical capacity and ventilation are not glamorous selling points for the public, but they can be decisive for operators considering whether to move into a space.
That is part of why Greg and Eric seem focused on established businesses. In a high-cost environment, experience matters. So does capital.
The Downtown Strategy Behind the Project
Beneath the conversation about walls, kegs and restaurant concepts was a larger argument about downtown Pittsboro itself.
We discussed that places like Chatham Park may attract more national franchises over time, while historic downtown Pittsboro may be better positioned for locally rooted, regional or second-location concepts. Whether or not that proves fully true, it is clearly the framework influencing how the Staffords think about this property.
There’s a development philosophy that sees downtown not as a blank slate for any tenant but as an ecosystem with its own character. That character is strengthened by live music, independent operators, food and drink destinations, and spaces that encourage people to circulate between businesses.
They also linked the fate of the former Havoc site to the health of downtown as a whole. Greg put it plainly, saying the earlier operation had become “the heart of Pittsboro” and that Pittsboro does not function too well without a heart.
In many small towns, one or two anchor venues help define whether downtown feels active or dormant. When those anchors close, the loss is measured not just in sales but in momentum.
We held our informal “3 Guys from Pittsboro having Lunch” discussion as a way to let the public know what is going on. All three of us are aware that residents are watching, speculating and waiting. They also know rumor tends to rush in when official plans lag behind.
By openly discussing ideas that have come and gone — from sushi to steakhouses to weddings to medical services — they were trying to clarify that there is interest, but not certainty.
Why Spring 2027 May Be the Honest Answer
For residents frustrated by the pace of change, the projected timeline may be the hardest part of our conversation to accept. Yet it may also be the most useful part.
Too often, vacant commercial spaces become magnets for unrealistic expectations. People imagine that because a building already housed a restaurant or brewery, another similar use should be able to step in immediately. Our Havoc discussion challenged that assumption head-on.
Unless the next tenant happens to match the previous use almost exactly, substantial work will be required. Even for breweries, the size and layout may not translate cleanly. For restaurants, kitchens, utilities and restroom arrangements all come into play. For a split-space concept, the complexity increases further.
In that context, saying “spring 2027” is not a stall tactic. It is a recognition that real redevelopment takes time.
It is also a reminder that the next tenant, if chosen carefully, may be worth the wait.
A Defining Test for Downtown Pittsboro
The future of the former Havoc space remains unsettled, but our conversation inside the building offered the clearest public picture yet of where things stand. The Staffords and their partners are weighing a two-space configuration, consulting engineers and architects, reviewing tenant interest from a range of business types, and insisting that the property’s outdoor entertainment value remain part of whatever comes next. They are also signaling that the process will be slower and more expensive than many residents might wish, with an opening no earlier than spring 2027 if everything goes well.
This site is too important to fill carelessly. You want an operator with experience, financial strength and an appreciation for what downtown Pittsboro needs: food, activity, music, consistency and a reason for people to gather. “We want food,” one of us said plainly. On the outdoor area, one of us was equally direct: “It’s necessary for a vibrant downtown.”
This is not just about leasing a building. It is about deciding what kind of place downtown Pittsboro wants to be as it grows.
Watch on YouTube – 3 Guys from Pittsboro having lunch inside Havoc (part 3) – 3.31.26
00:15 Discussion on reclaiming kegs and building plans for tenants.
- We discuss the arrival of 50 pallets of kegs and how a rental company is reclaiming them, indicating the kegs have limited value.
- We reflect on challenges in planning the layout for future tenants, including plumbing and building schematics that need consideration.
02:44 Discussing the establishment and challenges of a new restaurant in Pittsboro.
- The ideal tenants for downtown Pittsboro are established businesses that can invest in retrofitting spaces.
- Challenges include design vision, engineering plans, and the complex permitting process with local authorities.
05:34 Discussion on construction challenges and historical discoveries in Pittsboro.
- The team navigated the requirement for ‘Made in America’ components and faced unexpected engineering challenges.
- Nine underground storage tanks were discovered, leading to costly disposal procedures and an intriguing historical find of nine buried bodies linked to Revolutionary War events.
08:33 Discussion on the importance of a downtown outdoor gathering space.
- The outdoor patio is seen as crucial for community events and nightlife, enhancing downtown Pittsboro’s vibrancy.
- Plans for tenant selection focus on finding someone who values and utilizes the outdoor area for events.
11:09 Discussing the timeline and options for a new brewery establishment.
- It may take a year to open, depending on perfect conditions and necessary permits.
- Options for food and a focus on music are being considered, including a potential collaboration with nearby restaurants.
13:48 Discussion on potential auction plans and venue features.
- They consider auctioning items within the venue, with hopes to secure a tenant first.
- Colonel Eric Andrews discusses the importance of a grease trap as a valuable amenity for restaurants.
16:20 Discussion of new business ventures in Pittsboro’s revitalization.
- Community members are eager to learn about upcoming businesses that could enhance Pittsboro’s offerings.
- Proposed businesses include various culinary options, an Asian fusion restaurant, and health service facilities.
18:45 Discussion on potential new steakhouse location and building demolition.
- Interest in opening a second location for a steakhouse, though not currently prioritized.
- The previous building was structurally unsound, leading to a rapid demolition due to safety concerns.
21:06 Discussing construction costs and upcoming interviews at a local record store.
- The cost of commercial renovations is significantly higher than residential, highlighting the increase from $600 to potentially $1,000 per square foot.
- An upcoming interview with a local record store owner includes a humorous mention of finding an elusive Ethel Merman disco album.